What makes a semiotician tick? SEMIOVOX’s Josh Glenn has invited his fellow practitioners in the field of commercial semiotics, from around the world, to answer a few revealing questions.

Breda (Netherlands)…

SEMIOVOX

When you were a child/teen, how did your future fascination with symbols, cultural patterns, interpreting “texts,” and getting beneath the surface of daily life manifest itself?

ROB DRENT

When I was young we moved from the North to the South of the Netherlands — just 300 kilometers, but the change in dialects was like stepping into a different world. I found a whole universe in the way people talked. At the age of 10, I was trying to learn Danish from books; I was fascinated by the puzzle-like structure of languages. Through TV I had access to both Dutch and German; it was strange to see how two cultures so close could be so different in their expressions. This early interest in language and culture set the stage for my lifelong fascination with decoding human communication.

Recently, I returned to my initial fascination by attempting to learn Japanese. Last year I took a 2.5-month sabbatical where I continued my studies in Kyoto. Learning Japanese means learning how to read and write all over again. And Japanese being such a contextual language, my sojourn in Kyoto was a truly personal semiotic experience.

SEMIOVOX

Describe your first encounter(s) with the theory and practice of semiotics.

ROB DRENT

My real first encounter with semiotics came during my time in the Netherlands office of [the global marketing research company] Research International in the late ’90s and early ’00s. I started off in qualitative research and eventually led the department. Semiotics was one of our tools, and it fascinated me how it added depth to what we learned from focus groups and ethnographies. But we were a bit ahead of our time — Dutch clients back then weren’t quite ready for it. After I left and started working independently, I made sure to keep semiotics in my toolkit, even if I had to sneak it under a pseudonym, to avoid opening up lengthy discussions on theories and definitions — which clients, perhaps today even more so than back then, are not that interested in.

SEMIOVOX

How did you find your own way to doing semiotics?

ROB DRENT

My methodology combines semiotics, qualitative market research, and brand positioning. To me, semiotics and consumer research are the yin & yang of understanding branding — these disciplines complement each other perfectly, offering a fuller picture of what brands and their audiences live and breathe. The semiotics piece has always been a bit of a tough sell here in the Netherlands, though, where there’s a strong preference for pragmatism and short-term thinking. But I fully believe in the power of semiotics so I’m quite relentless in making clear that without it, you only get half of the puzzle. Just last year, Kees van Duyn and I started SemioCentral.com — the mission of which is to put Semiotics and Cultural Insight on the map in the Netherlands.

SEMIOVOX

What are the most important attributes of a good semiotician?

ROB DRENT

Curiosity is where it starts — you have to wonder about everything, even things that seem obvious. (What exactly makes something luxurious? What’s the meaning of nutrition? How does a brand come across as playful?) It’s not just idly asking; it’s about diving deep into those questions with a philosophical lens, questioning everything until you get to the essence. And you’ve got to be OK with not having all the answers immediately. It’s not a straightforward path — you dive into a sea of signs and symbols and navigate through it to find those nuggets of cultural insight.

SEMIOVOX

What three books about semiotics have you found the most useful and enlightening in your own work?

ROB DRENT

My go-to books on semiotics are the ones that show rather than tell.

• Sean Hall’s This Means This, This Means That. It’s great for getting you to ask the right questions.
• Holt and Cameron’s Cultural Strategy. It flips the script on using culture as a strategy driver, which is eye-opening.
• Rachel Lawes’ Using Semiotics in Marketing. It’s an excellent read offering clear case studies.

SEMIOVOX

When someone asks you to describe what you do, what is your “elevator pitch”? How do you persuade a skeptical client to take a chance on using this tool?

ROB DRENT

“I uncover the meaning behind it all, the stories behind everything we take for granted.” As mentioned earlier, convincing skeptical clients here in the Netherlands can be a challenge. I usually weave semiotics into my proposals as a crucial part of the project, without making a big deal about the term itself. Sometimes, it’s about repackaging it — like talking about “decoding your category” or “bringing out your brand’s differentiating narrative within its competitive field.”

SEMIOVOX

What specific sorts of semiotics-driven projects do you find to be the most enjoyable and rewarding?

ROB DRENT

There’s something really satisfying about working with semiotic squares. It’s like simplifying the complex world into a model that’s both manageable and insightful. The beauty is in finding the right balance: clear guidance that clients can understand and act upon, without losing the richness and depth of what you’re exploring. Finding the right, meaningful, strategic balance is what makes these projects so rewarding.

SEMIOVOX

What frustrates you about how semiotics is practiced and/or perceived, right now?

ROB DRENT

The one thing that grinds my gears a bit is the jargon. Even I get lost in it sometimes, so I can only imagine how overwhelming it must be for clients. My aim is to keep things clear and straightforward. It’s not about dumbing things down; it’s about making sure that whatever we discover, we can answer the “So what?” in a way that makes sense to everyone involved.

SEMIOVOX

Peirce or Saussure?

ROB DRENT

Haha, this is a good example of one of the questions that I would never engage in with clients. Although the discussion would be interesting, for them, being in marketing research, it’s simply too academic and not directly useful to their project. It’s like talking to me about the differences between car engines. I’m not interested in that level of detail, all I want is to get from A to B….

SEMIOVOX

What advice would you give to a young person interested in this sort of work?

ROB DRENT

Jumping into the details of semiotic theory can be like walking into quicksand — it’s easy to get stuck. My advice would be to get a decent grasp on the basics and then start applying them in the real world.

Everything around you is filled with meaning: signs, symbols, codes, and narratives waiting to be interpreted. The key is to develop the ability to see, not just look. This means tuning into your ‘hmmm-radar’: that instinct that makes you pause and think, “Hmmm, that’s interesting,” even if you’re not immediately sure why. When you notice something that catches your eye, take a moment to really see it — ponder what about this particular object, sign, or product grabbed your attention. This is where your semiotic analysis begins.

It’s about training yourself to spot the layers of meaning that most people walk past every day, uncovering the stories and patterns that shape our understanding of the world. Indeed: to get behind the meaning of it all.

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